Fractional Reserve Banking And Real Community Life - FORUM

Best to read this forum from the bottom up.

26th June 2007

G'day Len, Stan & All,
When I stated that the "Banks" pay the "RBA" "(The Royal Australian Mint, Canberra, ACT and Note Printing Australia, Craigieburn, Victoria)" I was confining myself to the fairytale realm in which we currently operate.

As all money that "we" use is/are debt instruments (despite the fact the sheeple regard them as credit instruments) then yes, it can be said that face value is not paid however the argument descends deeper into the mud, and I think that is the way "they" want it.....confuse and amuse.
On another slant, I assume you know that one can never pay for an item by using "debt instruments".

Debt instruments are negative in value..they are issued in debt.

One cannot pay for a "positive value item" with something of negative value!!!

Of course none of the above matters when one is operating in fairytale land.

Therefore in fairytale land the banks do pay "face value" for any "new" currency they acquire through the RBA. Yes, they "pay" by cheque!

With respect to old/worn/damaged currency, ...this is essentially traded "new for old".

Regards
Col

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26th June 2007

University textbooks normally teach a fantasy-world about banking.

The real facts about 'fractional reserve' and 'moral suasion' (a.k.a. window guidance, a blackmailing tool of the central bankers) was provided among many also by the economist Richard Werner in the textbook: New paradigm in Macroeconomics, Palgrave-McMillan, 2005 Read a sample chapter:
http://www.palgrave.com/pdfs/1403920745.pdf

'What a wonderful read!...Werner develops a simple and elegant model based on empirical observations but sufficiently abstract, and one that stands up to empirical testing impressively well. The potential implications are huge. His findings have become influential with those interested in the real world of finance.' - Dirk Bezemer, Imperial College, University of London, UK

Contents PART I: INTRODUCTION
Prologue: Searching for a New Kind of Economics
Japanese economic performance during the 1990s

PART II: ENIGMAS: CHALLENGES TO THE TRADITIONAL PARADIGM
The Enigma of the Ineffectiveness of Fiscal Policy
The Enigma of the Ineffectiveness of Interest Rate Policy
The Enigma of Japan’s Long Recession
The Enigma of the Ineffectiveness of Structural Policy
The Enigma of Economic Growth
The Enigma of the Velocity Decline
The Enigma of Japanese Asset Prices
The Enigma of Japanese Capital Flows in the 1980s
The Enigma of Japanese Bank Lending
The Enigma of Banking and its Recurring Crises

PART III: EXPLANATIONS: APPLYING THE NEW PARADIGM
Solving the Enigma of Banking and Money
Credit, Money and the Economy
Explaining the Velocity Decline
The Determinants of Growth
The Cause of Asset Price Bubbles and Banking Crises
The Determinants of Japanese Capital Flows in the 1980s
Why Fiscal Policy Could Not Work
Monetary Policy in the 1990s and How to Create a Recovery
Monetary Policy in the 1980s: How Bank Credit was Determined

PART IV: THE GOAL OF MACROECONOMIC POLICY
Banking Reform
The Goal of Fiscal, Structural and Monetary Policy
A New Kind of Economics
A New Vision of Macroeconomic Policy

Author Biographies
RICHARD A. WERNER is Professor of International Banking at the University of Southampton, UK.
Previously, he was Reader at Southampton and Assistant Professor of Economics at Sophia University in Tokyo, Japan. He has spent over a decade in Asia, including at the Bank of Japan, the Japanese Ministry of Finance and the Asian Development Bank, and as Chief Economist of Jardine Fleming Securities (Asia) Ltd and asset allocator of a major pension fund. He is much quoted in the media and has published widely on financial markets and monetary economics. In 2003, he was selected as Global Leader for Tomorrow by the World Economic Forum in Davos.

Marco

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26th June 2007

G’day Stan and Col,
They do not pay face value. They pay cost of production and delivery and they pay by advancing credit.
Cheers,
Len

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26th June 2007

From: Stan van de Wiel
Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2007 11:00 AM
To: 'Col'; 'Straw man'
Cc: 'Harry Weaver'; loveforlife.com.au; 'marco saba'; 'Gee Temp'; 'Terence Malaher'; 'Alan Baskett'; 'Craig Spence'; 'csgroup'
Subject: RE: Do central banks really inflate

Hi Col and all,
How do the banks “pay” the full value, would that be I.O.U. s ? or foreign currency, couldn’t be hard cash or gold could it?

Regards Stan

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25th June 2007

G'day Col,

The boat is not rocked, it just means that you have not gotten your head around the way the system works. If you believe what the bureausaurs from the RBA tell you, then perhaps you will believe anything. You need to go back to a few of the old text books written over 100 years ago when there was not so much newly created language as there is today.

Just think about it. All 'money' we have in circulation is created by the private banks. The 'money' we have begins life as created credit which is 'advanced' to borrowers. Banks do not loan money, they advance credit. The only way you can get your hands on coin and notes is for you to exchange your borrowed credit with the bank for coins and/or notes. Try it. All you do is write a cash cheque (or offer your passbook with a completed withdrawal slip) and give it to the bank. If you have sufficient credit in your account the bank will deduct the credit from your account and give you the equivalent in coin and/or notes. It has been shown that money in a banks vault has no value. If the bank paid face value for it to get it in the first place surely it would be worth face value? Coins and notes 'lost' by a bank in either fire or robbery are replaced by insurance at cost of production. Insurance companies know the score and would never overpay the banks.

Polymer notes have no intrinsic value and no precious metal backing. All the coins and notes are debt instruments.

Do you believe that the private banksters would create credit for nothing and then give the full face value to the RBA in exchange for the notes they print for about 6 cents each? Show me where in the RBA Bulletin that the RBA accounts for an inflow of the equivalent amount of money for the coins and notes it 'issues'. If it were true that the RBA received face value for its notes and coins it would have to show a profit each month for that. It does not because the RBA Bulletin shows each month that its assets equal its liabilities. What kind of liabilities would the RBA suffer every month to soak up all the profit from the sale of all coins and notes?

For the gold 'bugs' who claim a gold-backed system is the answer, riddle me this. Where would the government get the 'money' to pay for the gold to back any money it issued? The only money available would be the money paid to the gold sellers and no more. So the gold sellers would have all the money and control the world.

Cheers,

Len

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24th June 2007

G'day Len,
Sorry about the late reply,...
I'm going to rock the boat here a little........... and it is this..... the banks do not just pay the cost of production of the new currency they get from the mint and NPA,......... they "pay" the full face value.
I Know you will not agree, but my research indicates they do,............... one of those research tracks lead to the RBA reps with whom I've had a few discussions and can say that in my dealings with them they generally answer questions honestly.

One of the major problems with the sheeples is that they do not know the right questions to ask, so naturally, how can they ever be told the right answers!!

The reps at the RBA confirm that the banks "pay" the full face value of the newly minted or printed currency, not just its cost of production.

While we're on the subject of the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) its interesting to note the following.
Most people "hear" through the press, or tv, or radio that the board of the RBA meet on a certain day every month (1st Tuesday) and that they then proceed to set the Interest Rate or the Official Interest Rate for the period until they meet again..

Well that's another cock and bull fairytale.

They don't do anything of the sort.

I can hear all the scoffs and snorts from all the disbelievers now but it's a fact, they do not set Interest Rates!!

Don't believe me, well, ring and ask them.

Regards
Col

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24th June 2007

Dear Arthur,
You have blood in your eye and fire in your belly.

This is good, but please manage and control it lest it consume you.

Learn to comprehend and recognise that which is placed before you prior to your hissing and slashing at the bearer.

"wrong" ........ indeed, your hope or wish shall be granted.... but it will be time, not I, that evidences the "wrong".

Soldier on mon ami, stay strong, & never surrender! (but take time to smell the roses).

Regards
Col

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22nd June 2007

Dear Col,
I agree with you. No Central Bank does any injecting. All money is created by the private banks and they create the ‘reserves’ they require. The Fractional Reserve system is a story made up by the bankers to explain to the inquisitive how they do it. It seems that there are only a few who have ever researched deeply enough to see through their fairy story.

The second and most telling problem arises from Dr Frank Shostak’s story in the rest of his first paragraph.

As I have written before, if you add up the loan amounts and reserves mentioned they will still equal $1 billion at any point down the line i.e.

$1 billion minus 10% ($100 million) = $100 million.

Then $900 million minus 10% ($90 million) = $810 million etc.., etc..

Now add up the amounts.

$900 million + $100 million = $1 billion.

$810 million + $90 million + $100 million = $1 billion. Remember that the $810 million and the $90 million ‘reserve’ has come out of the $900 million of the first ‘loan’.

Where is the alleged $10 billion. It does not exist because the fairy story is not true and never has been.

I have an offer of AU$50,000 for anybody who can prove the Fractional Reserve system actually works and that has been on offer since 1990. Not even ex-Senator Peter Walsh, the Labor party’s Minister for Finance just prior to that time, bothered to try to collect after I made the offer directly to him and said he misled the Senate on December 12, 1988 when answering Senator Coulter.

Cheers,

Len Clampett

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June 21st 2007

From: Col
Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 11:50 AM
To: Stan van de Wiel
Cc: Harry Weaver; Alan Baskett; Craig Spence; Len Clampett; csgroup
Subject: Re: Do central banks really inflate

Greetings gentlemen,

Thanks Stan, for sending this on.

I make a small comment regarding the piece below, and that is the fatal flaw in its opening paragraph..........

"the central bank injects $1 billion into the economy"

A fallacy if there was ever one!!!!

I assume because we are in Oz we are discussing the Oz central bank which is the RBA?

The unpalatable (to some) fact is that the RBA injects nothing, zilch, nada, nought into the economy.

Get that...SFA!!

I expect there will be dissenting views that statement of fact, however I eagerly look forward to your explanation (if you believe it) of how it works!!

Remember, injection in this case is the addition to existing, (as in the patient (economy) has X litres of liquid in its body and doctor Frankenstein (central bank) injects a further 5ml of liquid, the patient now has X plus 5ml of liquid in its body (ignore the point percy at the porcelain or expired breath moisture etc loss). Can you come up with the truthful records of that happening here????

Hmmmm!!

Regards

Col

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June 20th 2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Stan van de Wiel

To: harry Weaver

Cc: Alan Baskett ; 'Stan van de Wiel' ; 'Col' ; Craig Spence

Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:53 PM

Subject: Do central banks really inflate

? No, say the post-Keynesians

Dr Frank Shostak
BrookesNews.Com
Monday 5 March 2007

According to traditional economics textbooks, the current monetary system amplifies initial monetary injections of money. The popular story goes as follows: if the central bank injects $1 billion into the economy and banks have to hold 10 per cent in reserve against their deposits this will cause the first bank to lend 90 per cent of this $1 billion. The $900 million in turn will end up with the second bank, which will lend 90 per cent of the $900 million. The $810 million will end up with a third bank, which in turn will lend out 90 per cent of $810 million and so on.

Consequently the initial injection of $1 billion will become $10 billion i.e. money supply will expand by a multiple of 10. Note that in this example the central bank has actively initiated monetary pumping of $1 billion, which in turn banks have expanded to $10 billion. But does all this make much sense given that the central banks in the world today don't target money supply but rather set targets for the overnight interest rate like the federal funds rate in the US and the call rate in Japan. Additionally, in some economies like Australia banks are even not compelled to hold reserves against their deposits. Surely then the entire multiplier model in the economics textbooks must be suspect.

Indeed economists from the post-Keynesian school of economics (PK) have expressed doubt about the validity of the popular framework. In the present monetary framework, it is held the job of the central bank is to ensure that the level of cash in the money market is in tune with the interest rate target. (Money and Inflation, L.Randall Wray — Jerome Levy Economics Institute)

For instance, if on a particular day the Government intake of cash exceeds outlays this leads to a deficiency of cash on the day. To prevent a scramble for cash in the money market and a subsequent increase in the overnight interest rate the central bank must inject an appropriate amount of cash in order to keep the interest rate at the target. Note that the central bank here is performing a balancing act, or so it is held.

The PK school of thought maintains that as opposed to the popular money multiplier model central banks do not actively pursue monetary pumping to influence various economic data in the economy — as we have seen the central bank is just aiming at keeping the money market well balanced. In fact, it is held the textbook multiplier story is an impossible fiction. It is maintained that the pumping of cash reserves by the central bank in order to raise the pace of credit expansion will create excess reserves, which in turn will push the overnight interest rate to zero almost instantly.

In this way of thinking it would appear the central bank has nothing to do, at least directly, with an expansion in the money supply. (In fact most central bankers would agree with this). The key source of money expansion is commercial banks that via an expansion in lending set in motion an expansion in the money supply. (For PK economists' commercial banks liabilities are seen as the primary money used by non-banks. The demand for loans plus the willingness of banks to lend determines the quantity of loans and thus of deposits created).

The supply of loans, in this way of thinking, is never independent of demand — banks supply loans only because someone is willing to borrow bank money by issuing an IOU to a bank. To conclude, then, according to this way of thinking, the driving force of bank credit expansion and thus money supply expansion is the increase in the demand for loans and not the central bank as the money multiplier model presents.

Is the money multiplier a myth or reality?

Superficially it does make sense to conclude that central bank policies are of a passive nature — the central bank just aims at keeping the money market in balance. A careful investigation of all this does, however, reveal that the central bank’s so-called passivity is just a spurious label. In reality central banks are very much active and far from being passive. In fact without the central bank being active it would be impossible for banks to expand lending and set the multiplier process (the creation of credit out of “thin air”) in motion.

Let us say that for whatever reason banks are experiencing an increase in the demand for loans. Also, let us assume that the supply of loanable funds is unchanged. According to PK, banks will oblige this increase. The demand deposit accounts of the new borrowers will now increase. Obviously the new deposits are likely to be employed in various transactions. After some time elapse banks will be required to clear their checks and this is where problems might occur. Some banks will find that to clear checks they are forced either to sell assets or are forced to borrow the money from other banks (remember the pool of loanable funds stays unchanged).

Obviously, all this will put an upward pressure on money market interest rates and in turn on the entire interest rate structure. Higher interest rates in turn are likely to force marginal borrowers out of the “game.” Also, some banks will go belly up as a result of not being able to honour their checks. Ultimately this will put downward pressure on bank lending, which in turn will offset the initial expansion in credit.

To prevent the rise in the overnight interest rate above the interest rate target, the central bank will be forced to pump money. Once the central bank pumps money to maintain a given interest rate target it in fact gives the green light to the money multiplier process (the creation of credit out of “thin air”). But surely this accommodation cannot be labelled as passive, but is rather very much active. Again to protect the interest rate target the central bank is forced to pump money. So the conceptual outcome as depicted by the multiplier model remains intact here. The only difference is that banks initiate the lending process, which is then accommodated by the central bank.

It follows then that the so-called multiplier, or the expansion of credit out of “thin air” cannot emerge in its own right without the support from the central bank. If the multiplier process requires the support of the central bank then one can infer that in a free market without the central bank the likelihood of such a process emerging is not very high. In a free market if a particular bank tries to expand credit without backup from a genuine lender i.e. practicing fractional reserve banking, it runs the risk of not being able to honour its checks, which raises the risk of bankruptcy.

Also, it must be realized that in a free market we should expect that the likelihood of a bank being “caught” practicing fractional reserve banking is going to be high, as there are many competitive banks. As the number of banks rises and the number of clients per bank declines the chances that clients will spend money on the goods of individuals that are banking with other banks will increase. This in turn raises the risk of a bank that practicing fractional reserve lending of not being able to honour its checks.

Conversely, as the number of competitive banks diminishes, that is as the number of clients per bank rises the likelihood of being "caught" practicing fractional reserve banking diminishes. In the extreme case if there is only one bank it can practice fractional reserve banking without any fear of being caught so to speak. In a free market then without the central bank the fact that banks must clear their checks is likely to be a sufficient deterrent to practice fractional reserve banking.

We can thus conclude that it is irrelevant for the multiplier process whether the central bank targets the quantity of money or the interest rate. What matters here that the central bank is always ready to accommodate commercial banks’ expansion of credit out of thin air. Without the central bank’s support the likelihood of a sustained multiplier process taking place is close to nil. Hence the notion of the money multiplier is not applicable to a truly free market economy. Additionally, in a fractional system, money that is created out of nothing can also disappear just as quickly, and this sets in motion serious disruptions to economic activity.

Dr Frank Shostak is a former professor of economics who now works in the private sector

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22nd June 2007

Col
It was written for you, out of love for you.

It arose through me with the heartfelt purpose of being directed at you, for you.

It was not for me to keep.

Consider it as a gift but you don't have to accept it and I can't force you to take it either.

What you do with it is all up to you.

What you love you cannot own.

I have ignored your sarcasm as this dribble is of no benefit to anyone.

What can you do with it to make life better than it currently is? It was not said with love.

In fact it was a personal attack on my character. I thought you were better than that Col?

Lets hope over time you prove me wrong.

I am not offended as I am unoffendable.
Arthur Cristian

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22md June 2007

Col wrote:

Dear Arthur,
Whilst you were penning the communiqué below, did you, perchance, notice the gentle tones of a choir?
Shalom Bro.
Col.
PS Good to hear you're soldiering onward, keep those lips puckered up. :-)

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20th June 2007

----- Original Message -----
From: Love For Life Campaign
To: Love For Life Mailing List ; Clemens Vermeulen - Tech Support
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Campaign] Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia,the free encyclopedia

Col
1. Who Controls The Past Controls The Future
2. You Can't Teach Old Dogs New Tricks

What You Believe In - What You Have Faith In - What You Have Opinions About, all reside in your past (sub-conscious) and your belief, faith and opinions are the glue that has you consciously re-projecting what you believe in, have faith in and have opinions about, into your future. This process is called a vicious circle. You keep walking into what you believe in, have faith in, or have opinions about (who controls the past controls the future).

If what you believe in, have faith in, or have opinions about, is a Fiction-Fantasy or consists of a Fiction-Fantasy, well hello to La La Land and we hope you have a great stay in La La Land.

This is how we shape and re-shape our conscious intellectualised pre-determined future (sameness) and the more people who consciously believe in, have faith in and have opinions about the same fiction-fantasy word-story, the more crystallised/certain/pre-determined becomes the conscious intellectualised experience/re-experience of the same intellectualised fiction-fantasy word-story, over and over and over again. You become like a goldfish (metaphor) going around and around the same old territory of the small old round fish bowl (The Vicious Circle).

You either pave the path of your future by what you project out of your past (intellect - word-stories) or you pave the path of your future by what you really feel (your soul) in the moment, from one moment to the next, spontaneously, living in the here and now - free-to-be, being in the moment, without concerns for the future.

Nothing is intellectually certain unless you intellectually say so and the certainty of your intellectualised life experience can consciously only happen if you intellectually believe in, have faith in or have opinions about the same conscious intellectualised fiction-fantasy word-story, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.

We are talking about mind-control and how to create zombies, robots and sheeple. And remember, justifications for what you intellectually believe in, have faith in or have opinions about, keeps you locked/glued in/to the intellectualised vicious circle of an imagined, predetermined (repetitive) nightmare, called Fantasyland (Hell - La La Land).

The real world is created for us (our souls) to investigate, explore and enjoy the real life experience of being in duty to real life IN THE MOMENT - FREE-TO-BE, without having to be concerned about the real functions of the real world.

The real world of earth/mother nature does not require men or women on earth, to evolve and exist. It can continue happily evolving forever without us. We are meant to be always living in the moment free-to-be and this is where we find our real-true FREEDOM. This is exactly what happens on the other side in the real spiritual world of real life.

No one wants to be battered and raped and neither does the earth and yet men and women are running amok, battering and raping the planet and other men and women on so many fronts. This happens because men and women have become in duty to their intellectualised/emotionalised fiction-fantasy word-stories which leads to them no longer trusting life or other real life men and women etc and are unable to live in the moment, free-to-be. This is how we have lost our real-true freedom. It is the vicious circle, the sub-conscious patterns we keep re-creating for ourselves, that isolates us from being bonded in the moment, to real community life.

"The Law" and all its fiction-fantasy abominations like private corporations and their contractual fear fines/rates etc, ARE ALL ABOUT YOU AND I NOT LIVING IN THE MOMENT FREE-TO-BE.

"The Law" does not want you and I to live free in the moment and this is why "The Law" attacks every child with zillions and zillions of waves/vibes to brainwash and familiarise their/our conscious reality, so that we are projecting their fiction-fantasy word-stories as our beliefs, our faiths and our opinions, into our future (Who Controls The Past Controls The Future).

Through brainwashing (Zion [not Jews] education - schools, university, TV, religions etc) they load us up with plenty of fiction-fantasy word-story evidence, which has us justify that our actions like working a job to make money to pay their fees, rates, taxes, fines, penalties, mortgages, interest rates etc is to believed in, have faith in or have opinions about because this is reality and is the only way we can live our lives on earth. Not realising (the masses) that they are, in truth, fiction-fantasy word-stories and are all lies.

This process of getting up and going to work, paying private corporation bills etc is part of the vicious circle being projected out of our sub-conscious. This process makes us slaves to "The Establishment" and slaves have no freedom because slaves are not free-to-be to live free in the moment.

Also, you can only experience the living free-to-be in the moment when YOU TRUST your real life in the moment, when YOU TRUST the real world in the moment and when YOU TRUST the real life men and women around you in the moment.

"The Law" is determined that you can't trust real life and persuades you to believe in, have faith in or have opinions about their version of reality which makes you a slave, in duty to "The Establishment". We need to rent their credit-creation money, we need to use their insurance, we need to use their education platforms and pathways to have a career in their constructs, talking and thinking in their language and following their rules, regulations, rituals and procedures etc, so we can have a life, measured by their standards and classifications etc. COME ON COL, PLEASE WAKE UP!

When YOU TRUST real life in the moment, there is no need need to worry about tomorrow, like paying insurance or saving money or assets etc for a rainy day. Or putting security grills and alarm sensors on every door and window in your home or office, in fear of what might happen tomorrow etc.

When YOU TRUST real life in the moment there is no need to meddle with real life, leading to destruction, rape, murder etc. Without real TRUST in the moment, we become disconnected/isolated Rambo's from real community life and we start meddling with real life. We start stepping over the mark and invading other peoples real lives to abuse and use them etc because we NO LONGER TRUST REAL LIFE.

Creating real community life, is about forging real bonds with hundreds/thousands of real men and women in the moment, so that everyone who is part of the bond can experience being free-to-be in the moment, knowing/trusting that I am in duty to you and you are in duty to me. Currently, we are living in a Zionist world (not Jews) where there are no real community bonds because we are all isolated individuals, pulled apart from real community life, fighting our own individualised/personal battles, instead of all of us being their together for each other, in duty to each other.

And lastly, by following your/our real feelings while ignoring the intellectualised fiction-fantasy word-stories streaming out of our sub-conscious, we step outside the square, outside the version of reality that the Zionist's have worked so hard to enslave us within. In following our real feelings, our souls are bonded to the supreme creator of real community life (the divine plan) and we are guided by a greater power to create the remedies/solutions IN THE MOMENT FREE-TO-BE, which dissolves Fantasyland.

This motto comes to mind "Argue For Your Limitations And Sure Enough Their Yours". It came to mind when reading what you stated "Also, we're going to be in a well done over (as in "rogered") status long before "planet x" causes concern. A goodly amount more of water needs to pass under the bridge afore we announce ourselves "free"."

I say...
When we are on the path with the supreme creator we have access to everything the supreme creator has to offer.

When we are on the path with Zion we have access to everything Zion has to offer.

Which path do you want to be on Col?

Which version of reality do you want to work and play with?

It can only be one or the other!

And yes, its sad to see that nearly every man and women on earth are still on the path with Zion.

How weak man and women have become these days.

Trust in the bonds of real community life (the supreme creator) is almost non-existent.

Man and women prefers to be bonded to Zion's Fiction-Fantasy Word-Stories.

Just how far has man and women drifted away from the bonds of real community life, will unfold over the next few years.

I am doing the best I can to help wake up anyone who can be woken up out of Zion's Fantasyland. It seems with you Col, that I can't teach old dogs new tricks. The familiarisation of a life with Zion is just too ingrained and just too far fetched for rescue. Well the good news is...I won't stop blowing the trumpet until I can't physically blow it any more. I love life which will not allow me to give up.

Arthur Cristian

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19th June 2007

Len Said.....Whilst you rely upon nonsensical sarcasm you won't get to many to read you words. I won't receive any more of your e-mails.

Len

19th June 2007

Marco said.....What you are not able to understand is that the actual banking system is an inverted function of your idiocy. Inverted equation: the more you are an idiot, the more they suck your blood.
And you royally deserve this.

Marco

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19th June 2007

Len Said..... And I have never met an economist who will admit to how the system really works nor offer solutions that do not involve debt for The People. The London School of Economics, the Italian School of Economics, no different they are all Fabian schools which have no interest in a sound money and honest banking system.

Marco, Your opinion as expressed counts for nought.
Len

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19th June 2007

Dear Arthur,
No, son, not a smartarse,......merely the devils advocate!! ....... Constructive narrative, young man!!
Also, 'commune' = A body of people or families living together and sharing everything. Do you have another = ?

Also, we're going to be in a well done over (as in "rogered") status long before "planet x" causes concern.

A goodly amount more of water needs to pass under the bridge afore we announce ourselves "free".
Regards
Col

----- Original Message -----
From: Love For Life Campaign
To: Love For Life Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Campaign] Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia,the free encyclopedia

Hi Col
Who said it was a commune? I am not into communes nor into seclusions nor exclusivity etc........

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Dear Terrence,
By your penning of "I do not know 'what' or 'why' everyone is so against the 'banks,' for all they in fact do is to offer a commodity to people that knock at their door, be they rich or poor and" indicates, or it appears, the penny has still not dropped for you........

Yes, I agree that one does not have to avail oneself of their (the banks) "wares", however in current society, that is almost akin to saying "I'm not gunna avail myself of the shops that sell food, or places that give it away"............Not a real good idea if one is a sheeple........ as one wit succinctly put it......... If ya don't have food ya don't eat ...an if ya don't eat ya don't shit........ an if ya don't shit YA DIE!!!!........... Not much of a choice..eh!!

Because society is so thoroughly hooked on money, and the love of it, the pain of withdrawal is too much for it (society) to contemplate let alone bear!!

Getting back to your query "'what' or 'why' *everyone* is so against the 'banks" is possibly because that *those* in the "know", know the banks are running a massive scam, in that the "commodity"(as you quaintly label it) is not the commodity that you are led to believe it is...i.e. it is not the forwarded on deposits of other customers or the loans from "reserve" banks, overseas munny etc etc.
It is in all actuality a deceit of the highest order!!!
Are you familiar with the word "usury"......

(Originally referring to the bible you would be aware that the term "usury" meant, means or stands for "interest"..(any interest whatsoever) however nowadays the original meaning has been prostituted, polluted, twisted (or call it what you wish) to mean "charging excessive interest").
I have noted that (if you can find) a dictionary that was compiled and printed in the 19th century it will describe usury as "interest" or "the taking of interest", whereas a dictionary printed nowadays describes "usury" as the "taking of excessive interest".

The switch seems to have occured in the early part of the 20th century, maybe the 1920s.
And if you stop for a second and exercise the grey matter you will concur that the banks' conduct puts them firmly in the seat of USURERS.

Toss this around inside your noggin and let me know whether the result is a scrammbled mess or has set solidly in fact........... If the bank is giving you a LOAN of "money", being "money" that they paid nothing to nobody for, yet still charge you full interest for, as if they were paying interest on it to some depositor but aren't, ......is that not excessive interest????!!!!! IS THAT NOT USURY IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD!!!!!??????!!!!!

To further compound this "crime", the crooks that pose as "legitimate governments" fully know that this crime is being foisted on the unsuspecting sheeples.

That they have those other cesspools of corruption, the rorts (oops, sorry, the "corts") to shaft and slaughter the sheeples that poke their woolly heads over the fence is just about the ultimate crime.
Regards
Col.

----- Original Message -----
From: Terence Malaher
To: Col ; loveforlife.com.au
Cc: John Wilson ; Pierre ; David Anthony Hall ; marco saba
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Banks

Hi Col, I do not know 'what' or 'why' everyone is so against the 'banks,' for all they in fact do is to offer a commodity to people that knock at their door, be they rich or poor and, - - - no one is forcing anyone to borrow it and, - - - that commodity cannot be given for free, for if it was, then why would I sell my chicken eggs to you for your money 'commodity' as exchange that you obtained for free if I can also get IT for free? I would not, so I would say 'Col, I have enough free money in my own pocket today, so if you want my eggs you will have to exchange the commodity of butter or milk or bread.

Any 'currency' commodity 'borrowed' has to be returned for IT to maintain a value. Because for you to be able to return IT once you have spent what you borrowed means, that you have to WORK at 'something' example; raise chickens and sell the eggs so that you then have the currency to return to the lender.

The bank is simply a 'facilitator,' and YES they DO charge too much interest on the loans, probably because the State gov steals a % of the deal o taxes etc., and through greed.

So if you or any feel that you do not wish to borrow from thieves then you do not have to do you?

The only 'other' way in which you do remain FREE from their thievery is when you do as me and NEVER BORROW money. I simply live according to my 'means' and this means that I walk until I have saved $ 25, and then I can ride a bicycle until I have saved $ 1000 and then I drive an old vehicle as I still do today.

Naturally if I was young and earning a high wage income then it would be OK to borrow within my 'means to repay.'

Terence

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19th June 2007

--- Straw man (Len) said... However, to facts. Central banks never make a profit. Their balance sheets are always in equilibrium at the end of each month as their assets always equal their liabilities.

Marco said... The first man of the Italian School of Economics who made clear this point, former attorney general Bruno Tarquini, in his book "La Banca, La moneta , l'usura" (The bank, the money and the usury), pointed out that the seigniorage is BOTH a liability in the State books AND in the Central bank books. My opinion: you Straw Man are doomed and you richly deserve this!

Marco

----------------------------------------
19th June 2007

I am always wary of those who claim that somebody else is "wrong" and use capital letters to attempt to make their point, and use numerous exclamation marks for emphasis.

However, to facts. Central banks never make a profit. Their balance sheets are always in equilibrium at the end of each month as their assets always equal their liabilities.

The banks buy the 'money' at cost from the central bank and the mint. The proof of value is in insurance claims for money destroyed. If a million dollars were destroyed by fire in a bank vault it is replaced by the insurance company at cost of production and the bank loses nothing. Money in a bank vault has no value except for replacement cost. This was made clear in the 1800's.

Consider this. All 'money' that comes into circulation does so as a debt of equivalence plus interest and that is a debt to a bank. All interest is usury no matter the rate. If a bank were to buy notes from a central bank at face value and on-lend, that bank could never make a profit from such lending activities due to many things such as the costs involved in lending and maintenance of loan accounts and the eventual demise of the notes. If a bank were to borrow the notes and coins from a central bank and then loan it out, it could never make a profit. No bank could ever borrow in order to lend, especially not from depositors.

Just imagine if a bank were to take a deposit from a customer, pay the customer interest on the deposit and then loan that money to another customer at interest. Suppose the second customer deposits it in another bank and gets interest on it where it is then loaned out again. This is the life cycle of money. The one amount of money cannot account for all the interest paid and charged. You need to understand that in order to get the money for the first deposit into the first bank the money had to be borrowed at interest. If you trace money back to source and forward to the end of the life of the notes you see the problem with the system.

The only way the any entity can get bank notes or coins from a bank is to first borrow credit and then trade the credit for currency. There is no other way to get notes or coins into common circulation.

By the way, do not be fooled by the Islamic banking system. They charge interest (riba, usury) on their loans. See the Iran Banking Law as one example.

Cheers,
Len Clampett

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19th June 2007

WRONG!
The monetary rent (seigniorage) is the difference between the printing cost of banknotes and their face value. This gain is taken by the central bank, not by the government. The central bank THEN lend the banknotes to the government at face value PLUS an interest (RIBA; the islamic word for usury).

The government pay with treasury bonds, issued in YOUR name (IOU).

Further, the bank hide the gain by putting THE FACE VALUE of banknotes in the liabilities side of the
balance - instead of writing the seigniorage in the PROFIT side of the balance. They call this GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles - among pirates). And because we are really doomed, we accept this without rebellion.

Kind regards,

Marco Saba
P.S. The only seigniorage that the state keep is the one from metal coins, but the state must follow the quantity that the central bank told him to print !!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- Straw man - ha scritto:

Dear Col,

The 'money', coins and notes, are sold to the banks at cost of production. To do anything else would mean that the banks could not make any profit from their lending.

Cheers,
Len Clampett

From: Col
Sent: Monday, 18 June 2007 11:05 AM
To: marco saba
Cc: loveforlife.com.au; "Gee Temp"; "David Hall"; "Pierre"; "John Wilson"
Subject: Re: 'Seigniorage = public debt' at the Italian Congress on June 12, 2007

One would be excused for assuming it is essentially "profit" for the government????

Why is it being relabelled 'public debt'????

Regards
Col

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19th June 2007

Dear Col,
The ‘money’, coins and notes, are sold to the banks at cost of production. To do anything else would mean that the banks could not make any profit from their lending.
Cheers,
Len Clampett

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18th June 2007

Dear Marco,
Here in Oz (Australia) the word "Seigniorage" (I am led to believe) represents "the amount that is the difference between the face value of currency and the *governments (*I am confining myself to the fairy tale here!!) cost of production (being the minting or printing) of that currency". One would be excused for assuming it is essentially "profit" for the government???? Why is it being relabelled 'public debt'????
Regards
Col

----- Original Message -----
From: "marco saba"
To:
Cc: "Gee Temp" ; "Col" ; "David Hall" ; "Pierre" ; "John Wilson"
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: 'Seigniorage = public debt' at the Italian Congress on June 12, 2007

On June 12 2007, an Italian Member of parliament (Teodoro Buontempo) have done a try to put the
seigniorage (monetary rent) as the 'Agenda Of the Day' on the Italian Congress.

The center-left government voted against. The Agenda was put on vote but was dismissed by 242 votes against 209 (six members didn't voted). No newspaper or media has written about the case.

Mr Buontempo wished to discuss how the public debt is created by the state buying up the Euro at face value PLUS interests... instead of printing it as a State Note or Bill.

The bad new is the agenda was turned down, the good one is that we got 209 votes in favour. The difference was only 33 votes.

Maybe something is changing here, who knows?

Ciao,

Marco Saba

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19th June 2007

Col
1. Who Controls The Past Controls The Future
2. You Can't Teach Old Dogs New Tricks

If what you believe in, have faith in, or have opinions about, is a Fiction-Fantasy or consists of a Fiction-Fantasy, well hello to La La Land and we hope you have a great stay in La La Land.

"The Law" and all its fiction-fantasy abominations like private corporations and their contractual fear fines/rates etc, ARE ALL ABOUT YOU AND I NOT LIVING IN THE MOMENT FREE-TO-BE.

I say...
When we are on the path with the supreme creator we have access to everything the supreme creator has to offer.
When we are on the path with Zion we have access to everything Zion has to offer.

Which path do you want to be on Col?

Which version of reality do you want to work and play with?

It can only be one or the other!

And yes, its sad to see that nearly every man and women on earth are still on the path with Zion.

How weak man and women have become these days.

Trust in the bonds of real community life (the supreme creator) is almost non-existent.

Man and women prefers to be bonded to Zion's Fiction-Fantasy Word-Stories.

Just how far has man and women drifted away from the bonds of real community life, will unfold over the next few years.

Arthur Cristian

-------------------------

Col wrote:

Also, we're going to be in a well done over (as in "rogered") status long before "planet x" causes concern.

A goodly amount more of water needs to pass under the bridge afore we announce ourselves "free".
Regards
Col

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19th June 2007

Hi.
Just trying to assist, for the sake of clarity.
Yours,
Robert Hertner

-----------------------------------

19th June 2007

Don't want to start a side issue boys but they're ALL WRONG.

It should be either:-
(i) Who said it was a commune? I am not into communes, seclusions or exclusivities, etc.
(ii) Who said it was a commune? I am neither into communes, seclusions nor exclusivities, etc.
Gee.

-------------------------------

Hi Robert
We are perfect in our imperfections Robert. I left school at 14 but this does not stop me. I am learning on the job, doing it, instead of not doing it, because of justifications like, I left school at 14, meaning I did not learn grammar properly etc. Fortunately, when Fiona has time, and little she has, Fiona edits my work because she used to teach English as a language to migrants. As you know we have 4 young daughters, one who is a baby 3.5 moths old. So please forgive my imperfections and please edit anything I do and I will update It immediately, like I just did with the one you just pointed out.

Arthur Cristian

-------------------------------------

Robert Hertner wrote:
RE: GRAMMAR

QUOTE YOU:

"Who said it was a commune? I am not into communes or into seclusions or exclusivity etc."
WRONG!

Who said it was a commune? I am not into communes NOR into seclusions NOR exclusivity etc.
CORRECT.

If you cannot master the language to be clear and concise,
NO ONE will EVER understand you!

HAVE YOU GOT THAT?

Exposé
Copula eame se non posit acceptara jocularem.

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18th June 2007

Hi Col
Who said it was a commune? I am not into communes nor into seclusions nor exclusivity etc.

I am into freedom but I can't have real freedom if the community that I am a part of is not free! How can there be freedom if there is chaos surrounding me all the time, due to greed and selfishness, arrogance, ignorance and fear etc?

You see freedom has nothing to do with communes!

Col, you are being a smart arse. Now I know we love each other and that you can take the full blow on the chin I just belted you with, pick yourself up off the floor, be a gentleman, and together we hold hands as we walk together towards the horizon, in freedom as free men forever.

The only way we can experience true freedom in community is when we provide/give true freedom to each other and that happens when we are being in duty to each other. I am in duty to you and you are in duty to me. The world we live in today is about being in duty to our self-centred interests and that is why we have such devastating chaos throughout community. We are isolated and disconnected from the bonds of real community life. Why else do we each have personal/individualised private corporation fear contracts/bills to pay? It is the only way "The Establishment" can control us! But it can't control a bonded community! Are you a masochist Col? Are you wanting more belting's from "The Establishment"?

The first real community life is like in-taking a tiny pill into a most terribly diseased body (the whole body) and over time, through its heartfelt, determined intentions, begins to spread, piece by piece, section by section, gradually transforming the whole diseased body of life. The purpose is to start living the way souls really/normally live on the other side "Free" and this "Free" attitude, spreads from person to person, mindset to mindset, heart to heart, until a critical mass is reached.

The purpose is for the whole planet to be "free" and not just one exclusive commune! The first real community life is all about "Walking The Talk", setting the example, making it happen, showing ourselves and others that IT CAN BE DONE, WILL BE DONE AND MUST BE DONE.

It is a huge sacrifice to let go of a lifetime of Zionist engineered (not Jews) brainwashing self-centred, survival and identity modes, just to be free and live in freedom with others who are being free.

We came from freedom. We did not come from slavery. We were born free but then we were got at, in fact we were pounded and brutalised by a torrential ongoing bombardment of self-centering, fiction-fantasy word-story impressions. Wave after wave, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, zillions and zillions of waves/vibes which are hell-bent on familiarising us/brainwashing us into becoming and accepting the version of reality we have now accepted and to which ONLY benefits "The Establishment", who owns and controls everything that creates and delivers these terrible vibes of chaos.

This current word-story fiction-fantasy mindset (democracy, capitalism, consumerism, materialism, competition, classifications, divide and rule, ownership etc) IS THE DISEASE and we are the carriers of this most terrible disease that is destroying everything that is real in the real world. Instead of blaming others and arguing with others I suggest we change the way we are being for starters and by example we inspire others to change as well. Lets not pass on this disease to others. Let us stop it spreading any further and be determined to turn back the tide. Why not WE be the ones who wipes out this disease.

Do you want to stay a SLAVE OF THE ESTABLISHMENT. If no, then you need to stop believing, having faith in or have opinions about any of the word-story fiction-fantasies (the constructs) that benefit only "The Establishment". We turn away and ignore it while we focus all our efforts on being in duty to each other and through these bonds, we are rebuilding real community life. This is a healing process Col. We are healing each other and those who seek to be healed from this most terrible psychic disease. When hundreds of us come together in duty to each other we become the money (the energy) for each other and we will no longer require Mammon to spoon feed our fears and concerns. It is time to hop out of the sand pit and stand up as real grown up's and only then will we receive the help from the supreme creator which made us all. While we are invalids, ignoring the supreme creator, we cannot be helped. Let us throw out the Zionist's and usher in the great architect of all of life.

This is not about changing the world, this is about changing ourselves to meet what our hearts feel we should meet. Over time a small % of the people will cause an avalanche due to reaching critical mass. The thing to remember is that it happens because those who make it happen, feel it happening and seek to meet the fulfilment of what they feel. Do you want to live in a world of freedom? And if so, are you willing to let go of everything that holds you back from being free, on every level of life, emotionally, intellectually, physically, materially, spiritually?

Are you ready and willing to let others into your life and allow yourself to enter others? This means pulling down the fences around every house, getting rid of lots and plots, throwing out divide and rule bank/credit accounts, ignoring private corporation bills, fines, fees, mortgages, rates, taxes, statutes, rulings, laws, religions, politics, education, credit-creation/usury, insurance etc etc and entering a real world of real freedom where we are being in duty to each other at all times. Its time to spit out the dummy and walk as true free men and women who can trust each other. Yes, we still have our personal space and privacy but we don't need all the Zionist garbage to do it.

We are free because we are free instead of trying to be free all our lives. That is the difference. Please Wake Up.
Arthur Cristian

ps. There is also the Planet X factor to contend with. This will come past between 2010 and 2013. We all need to be ready for this and we can only do this by helping each other. The Zionist's will not help us! In fact they are planning to leave most of humanity hung dry to die without food, water and shelter/safety. Please read the info on planet X in the Love For Life website http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/101

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18th June 2007

Col wrote:

Dear Arthur,

If we already don't own anything (rent only as you say) then how can we give "it" up!!!!? Something of a conundrum, what!!? (though something tells me that those of us that have taken up the
"cudgel", have, by its very nature, given up all !!)

Secondly, ensconcing oneself in a "commune" may give oneself a fuzzy wuzzy warm tingle inside but will not serve to shake the chains of the sheeples!! Even when you get up and running the sheeples that you do manage to attract attention too will just muse "oh my, isn't that just so quaint", then continue on their daily grind of being milked, shorn, shafted and slaughtered!!!

(Interestingly, the "commune" could not disconnect itself from mammon....It would still be "paying" the "tithe" of "rates" and quite possibly "land tax", thereby anybody living there would still be subservient to and in duty to mammon......and are they not the bonds we are endeavouring to sever????????

Like it or lump it, our "fight" is much more direct (as a matter of necessity).

The times in which we live dictate it so.

The battle between the BANKSSSSS and the people is hotting up!!!

Soldier on!!!

Regards
Col

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17th June 2007

Hi Arthur,
Your discussion below re 'renting & providing money' is the best, simply spot on, very good !
All the best
Josef

----- Original Message -----
From: Love For Life Campaign
To: marco saba
Cc: Pierre, John, Col, Len,
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Campaign] Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia,the free encyclopedia

Hi Everyone.
Since I keep getting your emails I feel I should now join this discussion.......

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Hi Everyone.
Since I keep getting your emails I feel I should now join this discussion.

The issue is simply the distinction between renting money (credit) to the community for a fee or providing money to be used for the community for FREE, so the community can simplify the exchange (barter) of their goods and services, without any strings attached. As you already know, what you rent you do not own and what is free is for the benefit of everyone, because no one in the community owns it.

Everything falls apart when members of the community start claiming personal ownership of the money and sought more and more money to appease their self-centredness. Instead of being in duty to all men and women at all times, they decided to be in duty ONLY to their personal self-serving interests.

Greed and selfishness born from the desire for power, control and show became the focus of their lives instead of caring for everyone around them. Private Corporations who create ALL the credit out of thin air and who charge a rental fee for providing their product/services to the community, also get the benefit of having all their rented products returned to them in full, just like renting a car and returning it to the hire company.

When we are in duty to community (all men, women, children and nature) there is peace, freedom and prosperity amongst community, but when we start being in duty to our opinions, our beliefs, our faiths etc, there is no longer peace, freedom and prosperity amongst community, but arrogance, ignorance, fear, secrets, lies, greed, selfishness, chaos, war, injustice, distrust, separation, isolation, loneliness, unhappiness, emptiness, despair, poverty, famine, hatred, anger, violence, crimes, deception, collusion, corruption, etc etc etc etc.

Should we not be focusing all our efforts every day on "Walking The Talk" by being in duty to each other and learn to let go of everything that stops us being in duty to each other? If each of us starts being in duty to each other, don't you think our world is already on the way to having a final everlasting peace, freedom and prosperity amongst all relationships, families and communities? As we change, the world changes. By caring for each other at all times we are rebuilding the bonds of real community life, but when we fail in our duty to each other, community begins to fall apart. The glue that binds community together is our duty to be in service to each other (community).

The way back home to heaven is paved with every stone we lay, born out of every action that benefits all of life. In fact, we are already in heaven while we are eternally paving the way through heaven with our love for all of life.

The challenge is to start re-creating real community life, first one, then two and a flow on effect takes place until there are thousands and thousands of them. There is no other way to fix ALL the problems of humanity. Are you ready and willing to give up everything you own and put into the ownership of real community life. While you hold on to what you own (self-centredness) community continues to fall apart until it is no more. Then what?

Arthur Cristian

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17th June 2007

YES I know all that Arthur...but a change is in the air real soon....I promise...sooner than you think...mark my word...We are all part of this change...starting with the corrupt Banking system and governments....the dark agenda is falling apart as we speak...they have nowhere to hide soon....the truth will prevail...Common Law will return soon...you see

dirck

Love For Life Campaign wrote:

Hi Dirck
To add to the challenge and not to complicate things further, a real community is unable to happen while "The Law" exists, and is relied upon by various members of the community to function. Currently, "The Law" determines what exists and what does not exist in community. All contracts that exist, exist because "The Law" says they exist. This means that all constructs that community currently relies upon to function is under the FULL CONTROL of "The Law". Government, Banking, Education, University, Courts, Judiciary, Media and all Private Corporations which impact upon everything and anything that matters (goods and services) for a real community to function.

What I am pointing to is this....The only way Real Community Life can function is when everything within and of the community is REAL and is not of a FICTION-FANTASY. "The Law' came into existence for the SOLE PURPOSE of maintaining, upholding, protecting and expanding the power and control "The Establishment' has over the serfs/commoners (slaves). "The Establishment" has always been the royal houses, the aristocratic blood line families (upper upper class) and the high priesthoods (who are now known as solicitors, lawyers, attorneys, prosecuters, barristers, The Bar, registrars, magistrates and judges).

While ever "The Law" is allowed to exist amongst community, the community has allowed/invited "The Establishment" to live amongst them and to act as "The TRUE TERRORISTS, who terrorise the real flesh and blood men, women and children of the community. Some of the many tools of terrorism are credit-creation/usury, centralisation of power into the hands of the few (government, government departments, media/information control, religions etc), private ownership of land (lots & plots), water, sea, air, sky, space, and what is in the sea, under the sea and under the ground etc. Basically anything that has to do with the Divide & Rule of life and nature on any/every level of life.

This is why, in all my spare time I am working hard rubbing and rubbing an old rough rock until one day the rock shines like a crystal. This rock is the flier page in the Love For Life website. The purpose of unfolding and one day concluding the flier page, is to show how and why we must create the first (of many) real life communities and make it work because when it does, it will provide the blueprint for reproducing thousands of real life communities in Australia and around the world. I am guided by real feelings to establish the first one, no more than 1.5 hours drive-time outside of Sydney and yet high enough and safe enough from the natural effects of Planet X, when it finally passes by between 2010 and 2013.

Currently we all live in Fantasyland because we are working with the tools (the constructs) provided by "The Establishment" through "The Law"' which they own and control. Every construct is a fiction-fantasy word-story, on hire to the serfs without ever owning them. Everything of nature and man (wealth, assets, hard labour etc) has been stolen by The Establishment and then is rented back to man for a fee = slavery.

Dirck, to break the camels back and solve the problems of every nation and community on earth, we must ASAP create the first real community life and start WALKING THE TALK. If we don't, we stay permanently trapped in WORD-STORY FANTASYLAND. In one way we are heading back to how the great native indigenous cultures lived, but in another way, we are incorporating ASAP free energy technology, sustainability, modernised environmental friendliness (building materials for homes, transport, civil works etc).

The focus is on being in duty to all of life/nature without destroying rivers, forests, mountains, species, persons, families, communities etc. The values are having us turn away from being in duty to word-story careers and interests that makes us self-centred and, is in truth, of no use or benefit (the training and the time spent on self-centred interests) for the soul in the after-life etc. The divine plan is all about being in duty to life 24/7 just like the Sun is to the planets and nature is to nature and a mother is to her baby. The only thing that needs to be fixed which then fixes everything/anything else going wrong with humanity is inspiring and guiding all men and women into being 24/7 in duty to all men and women. When we (humanity) have achieved this, we have become NORMAL again, because we have rejoined the real world/universe (the way it really works) and have left behind Fantasyland to perish into dust.

Love
Arthur Cristian

Thanks Evan

As a passing comment.....

Is there really any difference between....

ONE

The old days when "The Establishment" (Royal Houses, High Priesthood, Aristocrats, The Chosen Blood-line Families etc), who spoke French & Latin and owned and controlled the land and all its resources (wealth), while the serfs/commoners rented the land from "The Establishment", had no power or control over their lives, and could not comprehend anything when the elite spoke to each other in French & Latin while in the company of the serfs.......... and

TWO

Today's Judiciary, registered members of "The Law", politicians, banksters, experts, academics etc, who form the many arms of "The Establishment" and who talk to each other about "The Law's" of the day such as statutes, rulings, acts etc in a language that most of the population cannot understand or ever get their heads around the jargon. Keeping in mind that the private corporation agenda (the abominations conceived and orchestrated by "The Establishment"), to steal the "Common-Wealth" of the people of every nation, to own it and then rent its stolen property and services (wealth) back to the citizens (victims always looked upon as serfs & commoners by "The Establishment").

Are not Rates, Tariff's, Fees, Penalties, Fines, Charges, Credit-Creation Interest Payments etc, no different to the serfs and commoners of times gone past, who rented the land from "The Establishment" by providing a % of their produce (hard labour) to "The Establishment"?

You will find if you do the work, that no Australian owns "The Land" they reside upon, with or without a mortgage. The Land Titles office is a registered private corporation owned by "The Establishment" through the Crown (The Crown being all the houses such as the House Of The Rothschild's).

See the pdf attachment in our website http://www.loveforlife.com.au/files/USA_SEC_COMMONWEALTH_OF_AUSTRALIA.PD...
showing the "Commonwealth Of Australia" as a registered private corporation.

All federal, state and local government (govern men) departments (depart men) are private corporations and when you include all other private corporations operating in Australia, the real flesh & blood men and women of "Terra Australis" are really serfs, renting (making offerings to false idols - private corporations) as slaves to "The Establishment".

When you get your head around Private Corporation Owned Credit-Creation and how "The Establishment" used this Fiction-Fantasy Construct, through its private corporation banking agenda (another fiction-fantasy construct) to rent it's "NOTHING MONEY", you will see how what I have stated thus far, all comes together as one ongoing AGENDA, where "The Establishment" always seeks to maintain its DELUDED power and control over the serfs/commoners, who have always consisted of 99.8% of the population. This clearly shows that the serfs have never-ever had real-true freedom! Its the same old shit, repeating the same old bullshit patterns. Nothing has changed.

Arthur Cristian

ps.... read Either "The Money myth Exploded" http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm and its cartoons http://www.michaeljournal.org/gallery.htm

or "I want The Earth + 5%" http://www.loveforlife.com.au/files/I%20Want%20The%20Earth%20plus%205%20...

or "Out Of The Red And Into The Black http://www.loveforlife.com.au/files/Out%20Of%20The%20Red%20&%20Into%20Th...

or Get the book I mentioned to you last time called The Money Trick. I hope, with permission, to be able to have it available in our website shortly. You can buy it from Veritas in WA, contact Maureen veritas @ avon.net.au or 08 9574 6042. It is around $6 + mail. Her mailing address is PO Box 1334 Midland DC Western Australia 6936.

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17th June 2007

Hi Arthur,
Yes I agree with you a banking system based on the Noble Price Winner which was initiated in Bangladesh and now other parts of the World is the only way to help balance the life of millions....in which interest payments was taken out of the equation.

I certainly like to look into such a system for the benefit of the poor here in Thailand where I now live and its neighboring countries of Cambodia and Laos.

in Love and light

dirck

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17th June 2007

Dear Gentlepeople,

Wikipedia is edited by anybody and everybody so we can’t place too much faith in what it says.

There is, in fact, no such thing as Fractional Reserve Banking (FRB). The very idea of it was created by the banksters to explain to the masses, who were asking questions about the creation of ‘money’, how it is done.

If you subscribe to the claim that ‘money’ is created this way, it would seem that you have not thought it through fully.

The ‘reserve’ system was removed in 1988 in Australia. You can see the notation in the Reserve Bank Bulletin every year from 1988 on for many years. It may still be there for all I know but I have not seen one for some time.

All that was required under that system was that the banks had a certain percentage of their loan funds in ‘reserve’, as if this was somehow supposed to be a brake on lending. The truth is that they banks used to create the ‘reserve’ money as they created the credit they advanced. Ergo, no limit.

If a bank gets a $100 deposit, and, according to the FRB, keeps 10% in reserve and loans out $90, you will notice that the $10 + the $90 still ads up to $100. If the bank then keeps $9 and loans out $81 you will see that the $10 + the $9 + the $81 still add up to $100. This is the story no matter how many times the banks keep 10% in ‘reserve’ and loan out the remainder. The total always adds up to the initial deposit.

The banksters were able to come up with their fairy story and the sheople apparently did not look far enough to see through it.

The truth is that the banks create any amount of credit they want with the only restriction on them being their own assessment as to how much they can create without destroying their own businesses.

I have submitted a variety of banking quotes from over the decades as part of my Outline of Argument to the Queensland District Court for my Appeal against a MAGI-strates decision against me brought by the ATO. The Court has not seen fit to set a date for my Appeal and it may well be that they never will so that the information never gets right into the public eye and the court won’t have to make a decision. This suits me if they go that way because it means I will never have to submit a tax return nor pay government fines/penalties and neither would anybody else who went that way.

The bankers have been admitting that they create credit since the 1800’s, but they have always been happy that the masses would never cotton on to their game. It seems as though they were right and I believe the only way around them is to educate the sheeple sufficiently to gain a critical mass which will cause change. The Zionists have always said that once 10% of the masses wake up their game is over.

I will attach my Outline of Argument for those who have not seen it if I am asked.

Cheers,
Len C..........

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13th June 2006

Yes, you say the truth. One month ago the cousin of Enrico Mattei, Renato Mattei, who was a 40 years old director of the Italian bank 'BANCA POPOLARE DI MILANO', was restrictd in a ILL HOSPITAL just becasue he had read my boik 'Bankenstein'.

Kind regards,
Marco Saba

--- Gee Temp ha scritto:

The point is though, Marco, that even some bank managers haven't a clue about where the 'money' comes from.
Gee.

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marco saba wrote:

We like to say 'out of thin air', but in fact it come out at expenses of the community at large (i.e. inflation tax). The debt-money is created out of liabilities stolen from the people with the hidden inflation scheme. They stole real assets (taxes, etc.) to repay the debt they created and are liable of.

Kind regards,

Marco Saba
Italian School of Economics
http://studimonetari.org

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--- Gee Temp <> ha scritto:

Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free

encyclopediaG'day Col,

A long standing friend of mine was a bank manager for some 20 years and one day I asked him where did the money come from that he aiuthorized as 'loans'. "Oh, most of it comes from overseas!" he said. "Whereabouts overseas?" I asked. "Oh, the bigger banks, BIS and World Bank."
"And where do they get it?" "Oh, it's printed as necessary according to demand and balances."

I had to say, "James, you haven't got a clue have you? It's created out of thin air!"

"Oh, no...some comes from within Australia but most comes from overseas!"

I guess it remained a 'secret' to him, even after 20 odd years!!!!!!!!!!! Ho hum.
Gee.

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----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dear David
Please forgive me but for expeditiousness my replies are in brackets immediately below.

Dear Col,
I always appreciate being told by people I don't know and do not know me what I would comprehend or not.

(No, David, I am not gauging/ranking your comprehension abilities, you are ably doing that all by yourself, the proof is in the pudding....look at what you have written, no need to reveal anything else.)

Also its a good tactic to limit the terms of the debate -- like me not wasting my time parroting the words 'Banking Business', etc.

(I'm not limiting the terms of the debate in any way whatsoever, actually quite the reverse,.......... by
early discounting of a clear piece of misinformation (BS) the debate is instantly opened up!!(unless your entire argument/debate was founded on the it (BS).)

Every few years I do the rounds of the political groups here in Oz

(an interesting statement indeed, what do you mean by "doing the rounds" and what is your description of the "political groups"....i.e. do you mean liberal labour, dems etc or other?)

to see if any capacity has developed for real debate -- a Socratic Dialogue being too much to expect.

The usual thing has been to recite the creed, to declare that all those 'who know what they are talking
about' support the creed and if anyone utters a contrary view, insult them with a diatribe -- 'only idiots

(Smirk smirk, do we have a classic case of the pots calling the kettles black!!)

say what you say and everybody knows that',

(and are they going BAAAA BAAAA BAAA too!! etc.)

I did it again last year and every group/political party lived down to my expectations.

(You ought be happy that you weren't disappointed!!)

The actual way credit creation works is NOT a secret.

(It sure is to the sheeples, but it is not to the lowlife that slither around the confines of the towers of filth and corruption!!)

I am not not going to make this cause celeb for but the next time I am in a Municipal Libray I will thumb through some high school economics textbooks and note title,

(please)

chapter

(please)

and page numbers.

(please)

I will also keep an eye out in the financial press for the next public report of the credit creation ratio

(I have never seen these published..ever...a "report of the credit creation ratio" will be marvellous to see!!)

currently being used.

(please)

Also next time I am in Martin Place I will pick up the Annual Reports of some of the Trading Banks and note the credit creation obvious,

(I have perused lots of ADI ARs and AFRs and I have yet to sight a column headed "credit created" or any thing remotely similar!)

from a cursory glance at their balance sheets.

(It is these "cursory glances" that is/are screwing the sheeples... nobody is delving into detail!!)

I will also endeavour to get a copy of the Reserve Bank Act. Not hard, go to
You say that banks have denied credit creating in the Courts????? That must be their lawyers talking.

(So what?? Are the lawyers (liars for hire) there peddling the lies of their clients or not??? If they're not peddling the lies of their clients then whose lies are they peddling and why is that party not paying them????)

Getting financial advice/judgements from a lawyer

(a lawyer is not able to give financial advice nor judgements!!!!)

is like having a suburban plumber pop into the operating theatre of a hospital to sort your entrails.

(Good!!!The plumber may well make a better job of it!!!!! I look forward to your future revelations. Don't forget to answer....... "Costello's little gang agreeing the Australian banks do indulge in the act of CREDIT CREATION and are do'in it", yet the Australian banks vehemently denying it. Who is screwing who?)

Regards
David

(Many happy regards Col)

----- Original Message -----

From: David Hall

To: Col

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 3:23 AM

Subject: Re: Fractional-reserve banking -

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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On 8/6/07 12:34 PM, Col at ....... wrote:

Dear David,
While you are right, the problem is concentrated "power", in that part of .........., none of it could have happened without the aid of the fraud that is "credit creation", a tool that has been used to enslave the "stupid dumb sheeples".

Of course, the fraud of credit creation is the third greatest swindle in this world but no-one seems to be able to understand it nor grasp/grapple with the fact that it is a hideous crime. For that reason you would not comprehend the 1st and 2nd swindles, yet they stare you in the face screaming at you!!!

I note you state that "credit creation" is not a secret, which I tend to agree with, however what is a secret is the actual way it works as opposed with the way that the know-alls teach the know-nothings it works. (The blind leading the blind if you will)

There is a world of difference between the two.

I have yet to sight a "TEXTBOOK" that tells the truth.

The simple fact is "credit creation" is pure fraud.. nothing else!!

I would be also pleased if you were to show me exactly where it is, the Australian law that allows
credit creation, please quote it verbatim. Please don't waste my time nor yours parroting the words "Banking Business", they have no legs whatsoever!!!!!!

Interestingly, if as you say, "credit creation" is not such a secret would you care to explain why banks *sit up in courts and state "we know nothing about credit creation, your **honour, and we don't practice it either!! (* I have observed this happening with my own eyes and ears!!!)

(**code for MY BROTHER CROOK/THIEF/SWINDLER)!!!!! Would you care to try and explain away that small complication.

I further note you state " the recently agreed conditions for Tier One and Two Capital in Reserve require the banks to keep a percentage of their funds in liquid assets to be able to cover emergencies".

Great stuff!!!!! Bammboozle the sheeple with officious words .....tier 1, tier2, Grossed, Capital adequacy, Weighted averages, Accreted value, Securitisation, Debentures, Aggregating, Derivative liabilities, ACE ratios, AIFRS accounting, Noon buying rate, Liquid assets, Equity, Non accrual, impaired assets, Net cash, Minority interest, Discounted, Coupons, Accellerated benefits, Voucher, Broad money, Intangible assets, ETC, ETC, ad nauseam.

Get the sheeple to glaze over and they're in your trap of ignorance, right where they're wanted,
......... your prisoner!!

Really now!!!

Here is a wee task for you, if "credit creation" is common knowledge (not a secret) and it works the way that you think it does then show me where it is accounted for in the ADI (Authorised Deposit (taking) Institution.. aka Banks etc) Annual Financial Reports.

If this "Created credit" is being "created" by the banks then it MUST be "written up" somewhere.
Where Indeed!!!

I look forward to your enlightening answer!!

I have letters from Costello's little gang stating "yes, yes, yes, the Australian banks do indulge in the act of CREDIT CREATION and are do'in it", yet I have replies from those same Australian banks vehemently denying it.!!

Col

=== message truncated ===

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----- Original Message -----

From: David H.......

To: Col
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

on 6/6/07 11:08 PM, Col at wrote:

Dear John and Marco & All,

Here in OZ the banks dont deposit even 1 red cent in the central bank, yet they still indulge themselves in the fraud of fractional reserve banking!!

Whaddaya reckon about that me hearties!!!

Regards
Col

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Dear All,
I wish to God that Conspiracy Theorists and all those looking for a single sourse of all that is evil would get off Bank Credit Creation and Fractional Reserve Banking, as though that is that source.

Credit creation is taught in high school economics, Bankers Insitute Courses, University Economics Degree Courses and is regularly discussed in financial newspapers around the world. It is not a secret.

When $100 is deposited into a bank it is NOT quickly(or slowly) banked into a Central Bank who lend out 50 times. The banks hang onto it and do the credit creation themselves. Any one of us could do the same with a credit union in a country town and a stable deposit base.

Two percent or no percent in deposit at the Central Bank does not matter -- the recently agreed conditions for Tier One and Two Capital in Reserve require the banks to keep a percentage of their funds in liquid assets to be able to cover emergencies.

That is not the problem. The problem is what it has always been -- CONCENTRATION OF POWER, be it in the Pentagon, Wall St, the City of London or in the buying rooms of two Australian Retailers who buy more than 70% of farm produce or one News Corporation that controls 70& of newspaper circulation.

Regards
David H.......

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07/06/07

Col wrote

Dear Robert,
The difference in the quantum of the "loans" you have stated is indicative of the evolution and corruption of the putrid money system.

Most sheeples are programmed to bleat "oh, that is just inflation, nothing we can do about that"...... and so, in their Raphus cucullatus inspired stupor, for the cliff edge they inexorably grind!!

Greed is a powerfully inspirational motivator.

When the poo hits the fan this time around the harvest that will be reaped shall be unwanted by many, but who can see this?

The blind seem determined NOT to see and they, to compound the situation, are led by the blind!!
Wake up time!!

Regards
Col

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----- Original Message -----

From: Robert M.............
To: Col
Cc: Jim ; Governor ; jhwilson
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 1:04 PM

Subject: Re: Warning SOPHISTRY Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Warning SOPHISTRY

Well I think your "chains of the sheeples" are going to get a considerable rattling at the next economic collapse which is just around the corner. An unprecedented volume of young generally insecure Australians have been loaned a huge amount of home loan finance averaging some $230,000 each.

I recently had a 19 year old on my construction gang. He was a typical teenager with a girlfriend, who does all the typical things like night clubbing, drinking and taking recreational drugs but then one day he was discussing his house that he recently bought. He blurted out that he has a loan of around $400,000. I was completely lost for words. He was no longer the image of a typical teenager I had in my mind. I cannot even begin to come to terms with this. I am 46 years old and the biggest loan I ever had was $118,000 for a house I sold 8 years ago.

When all these kids lives are ruined by the banks we are going to see a lot of upheaval and anger pouring out onto the streets. Then your Sheeples are going to dragged to the myre and burnt at the stake.

Robert M.........

----- Original Message -----

From: Col

To: Robert M........
Cc: jhwilson ; Governor ; Jim.........

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 7:00 AM

Subject: Re: Warning SOPHISTRY Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Warning SOPHISTRY

Dear Robert,
Someone has to rattle the chains of the sheeples..........Those who do not move, do not notice their chains........as Rosa Luxemburg is credited with saying.

The sheeples would also do well to notice...."The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance": Benjamin Franklin.

Sound familiar???

Regards
Col

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Mcjannett

To: Col ; jhwilson ; Governor
Cc: Jim Bernard

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:18 PM

Subject: Re: Warning SOPHISTRY Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Warning SOPHISTRY

I don't know how this thread came to my mail box and I certainly don't want to be put back on John wilson's mail list but I will say this. Back around 1990 I met a gentleman from the small town of Collarenebri in North West NSW who was very politically active and later became involved in the Gwydir movement. He was communicating with an activist in the USA who was putting enormous pressure on the Government over the very argument you are discussing here.

He ultimately called for an audit of the Federal reserve bank of the United States and got quite a bit of support. His catch cry was "where's the money coming from-let's audit the Fed and find out." I don't remember his name or what happened next but I assume he was asassinated or something. You are correct in determining that banks create money out of thin air!

Robert M..........

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07/06/07

Col wrote

Dear John and Marco & All,
Here in OZ the banks dont deposit even 1 red cent in the central bank, yet they still indulge themselves in the fraud of fractional reserve banking!! Whaddaya reckon about that me hearties!!!
Regards
Col

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Marco,

"(in the Euro area).....2% fractional reserve banking"????
Why bother with any nominal %?

Why not just give them total carte blanche?

Yours sincerely,
John Wilson.

----- Original Message -----
From: "marco saba"
To: "jhwilson"
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 3:17 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What really happens is that when you deposit $ 100 in the bank, they quickly deposit it into a central bank account and lend out 50 times so (in the Euro area), i.e. $ 5,000 created out of thin air. I.e. In the Euro area you have a 2% fractional reserve banking.

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Col wrote:

G'day Paul,

The prediction is not for a mere "depresion"......

I am refering to a total and utter collapse of the "money system".

It is a house of cards, built on a foundation of mud, about to come crashing down, when it does the
"authorities" and banksters will, typically like gutless cowards, blame everyone and everything else but themselves.

And as you have noticed,.. the money people are not interested in changing the status quo and the people that want it to change cannot seem to muster enough cohesive support to produce a massive people's movement, .......despite this, things are starting to move, history shows very little was changed due to "a massive people's movements", usually only a few were responsible for the change.

Don't ignore the fact that we are "ruled" by an oligarcy despite the bleatings of the sheeples about their imagined "democracy"!!

These days ALL "democracies" are nothing but mirages!! (and I think if you keenly study history you'll discover they allways were)

Regards
Col

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----

From: nambourdeli

To: Col

Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:23 PM

Subject: Re: Warning SOPHISTRY Re: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Warning SOPHISTRY

Touche. I've been predicting a depression for a couple of years now. But how does one convince sheeple that don't see the forest for the trees.

Unfortunately most of the money people are not interested in changing the status quo and the people that want it to change cannot seem to muster enough cohesive support to produce a massive people's movement.

Cheers
Paul

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Col wrote:

Dear John, Brian and All,

The kindest description one could bestow upon that claptrap* article is that it is pure sophistry!!. (get your dictionaries out)

Sophistry is also a excellent description of the words that slide/slither off the forked tongues of the evil scum posing as "judiciary", "GOVERNMENT", "officialdom", and the like! (including the various arms of the Media)

Never before in human history has the populace been lied too as it is today!!!

WARNING.

Over the past number of years I have conducted extensive research into the topic of "MONEY".

In summary, and again, the kindest description available for it (money) is "A tool to enslave mankind"!

You are all in involuntary servitude!

Involuntary servitude are just 'flash words' for Slavery.

Scoff all you like, however, it is the truth.

Is Slavery legal or illegal?

Furthermore, modelling indicates it pays to note "we" will suffer a full currency collapse within 2 years (most likely within 18 months).

Again, scoff all you like but remember this.........

FOOLS THAT PAY NO ATTENTION TO HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!!!

I apologise for the tenacity and abrupt tenor of this wake up call.

I do not apologise for its truth.

Regards to all.

Col

* Note that Wikipedia themselves admit "This article (or section) may need to be wikified to meet Wikipedia's quality standards."

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----- Original Message -----

From: jhwilson
To: Governor
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 8:15 AM
Subject: Fw: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dear Brian,

Wikipedia got it wrong.

In "EXAMPLE" and "TABLE 1": If a bank lends $70 of $100 deposited with it, then the bank only has $30 left...not $100.

Wikipedia says that when the $70 lent is redeposited, the bank then has $170 ...but $70 + $30 = $100 and not $170.

Wikipedia says, "its total deposits have increased"...but they haven't.

Yours sincerely,
John Wilson.

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Governor" <>
To: "CENTRAL QUEENSLAND FREESTATE ELECTORS, MEMBERS, BENEFACTORS & ASSOCIATES"
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: FW: Fractional-reserve banking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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